"...Other beliefs about inner worlds gained currency among NAZI 
enthusiasts.  There was, for example, a VRIL SOCIETY also known 
as the 'Luminous Lodge', which held that Lord Lytton's book THE 
COMING RACE was true and that it offered a blue-print for the future 
(THE COMING RACE was published in 1873).  Members of this occult 
body no doubt thrilled to the Vril-ya slogan -- 'No happiness without 
order, no order without authority, no authority without unity.' 
     "But developing a race of supermen was difficult and took time.  
The LUMINOUS LODGE wanted to make contact with ANY existing 
race of superior beings, in the hope of establishing peaceful relations 
and learning their secrets.
     "Other organizations followed similar urges.  The anti-Semitic 
THULE SOCIETY of BAVARIA, whose adherents included Nazi philo-
sopher Alfred Rosenberg and deputy fuhrer Rudolf Hess, sometimes 
claimed to REPRESENT survivors of Atlantis who lived IN THE HIMA-
LAYAS -- the legendary secret chiefs of TIBET.  Some of the society's 
more enthusiastic members believed that they could contact their 
master, the KING OF FEAR, by use of tarot cards.
     "According to some accounts, Hitler may even have believed
that he had seen a member of a super-race from the inner earth.  He 
reportedly told Hermann Rauschining, the Nazi governor of Danzig: 
'The new man is living among us now!  He is here!... I will tell you a 
secret.  I have seen the new man.  He is intrepid and cruel.  I was 
afraid of him.'  The fuhrer was also rumored to have dispatched expe-
ditions to TIBET and MONGOLIA in search of UNDERGROUND wisdom.  
In further pursuit of such knowledge, special units are said to have 
scoured the mines and caverns of Europe (AND the southwest U.S., 
including NEW MEXICO before the 2nd World War, according to John
Grace and other researchers. - Wol.) for passages leading to a sub-
terranean world.  And then there is the recurring legend that senior 
Nazis took refuge in the bowels of the earth as Germany collapsed in 
ruins."

		*       *       *       *       *       *       *

Peter Brookesmith, in his book 'UFO'S, WHERE DO THEY COME
FROM?' (MacDonald & Co., Pub.,  London, England.  1984.  pp.
16-17) elaborates on the history of one of the German scientists
involved in the top secret Nazi saucer projects.  In reference to
this scientist, Rudolph Schriever, Brookesmith reveals:

     "...His 'flying disc' had been ready for testing in early 1945,
but with the advance of the Allies into Germany, the test had to
be canceled, the machine destroyed, and his complete papers
'mislaid' or stolen in the chaos of the Nazi retreat [so the 'official
story' goes. - Wol.].
     "Schriever died not long after these revelations, convinced
to the end that the UFO sightings since the end of the war were
proof that his original ideas had been taken further with successful
results.
     "But what were the foo fighters?  An identification was proposed
by an Italian author, Renato Vesco, in a book first published in 1968.
According to him the foo fighter was actually the German FEUERBALL
(Fireball), first constructed as an aeronautical establishment at Wiener
Neustadt.  The craft was a flat, circular flying machine, powered by a
turbojet.  It was used during the closing stages of the war both as an
anti-radar device and as a psychological weapon designed to disturb
Allied pilots.  Vesco says:
     '"The fiery halo around its perimeter -- caused by a very rich fuel
mixture -- and the chemical additives that interrupted the flow of elec-
tricity by overionizing the atmosphere in the vicinity of the place,
generally around the wing tips or tail surfaces, subjected the H2S
radar on the plane to the action of powerful electrostatic fields and
electromagnetic impulses.'
     "Vesco also claims that the basic principles of the FEUERBALL
were later applied to a much larger 'symmetrical circular aircraft'
known as the KUGELBLITZ (Ball Lightning), which could rise verti-
cally by 'jet lift'.
     "Since neither the British, the Americans nor the Russians
are ever likely to reveal what, precisely, was discovered in the
secret factories in Nazi Germany, it is worth noting that in 1945
Sir Roy Feddon, leader of a technical mission to Germany for the
British Ministry of Aircraft Production, reported:
     "'I have seen enough of their designs and production plans
to realize that if they had managed to prolong the war some
months longer, we would have been confronted with a set of
entirely new and deadly developments in air warfare.'
     "In 1956, Captain Edward J. Ruppelt, then head of the U.S.
Air Force Project Blue Book, was able to state:
     "'When World War II ended, the Germans had several radical
types of aircraft and guided missiles under development.  The
majority of these were in the preliminary stages, but they were
the only KNOWN craft that could ever approach the performance
of the objects reported by UFO observers.'
     "POST WAR SAUCER PROJECTS: The first concrete evi-
dence for post-war flying saucer construction projects came in
1954.  The Canadian Government announced that the enormous
UFO seen over Albuquerque, New Mexico, in 1951 was similar
to one they had tried to build shortly after the war.  Owing to their
lack of advanced technology, they had eventually passed the
design over to the United States.
     "Further evidence for the United States involvement with
saucer-shaped aircraft projects was to be found in the U.S.
Navy's Flying Flapjack.  The Flapjack, also known as the Navy
Flounder, was a circular aircraft, the design of which was begun
during the Second World War.  At that time what the Navy
desperately needed was an aeroplane that could rise almost
vertically so that it could take off from carriers, and could fly
at as little as 35 miles per hour (55 km/h).
     "Little was known about that machine until early 1950, shortly
after the U.S. Air Force had ended {?} its UFO investigation pro-
gramme, Project Grudge (the forerunner of Project Blue Book).
As part AS AN ATTEMPT to show that UFOs did not merit further
investigation ('officially speaking' that is. - Wol.), the Air Force
released photographs and vague information about the Flying
Flapjack.
     "Apparently, because the aircraft was wingless, the reduced
stability had presented problems.  A later model, reportedly
designated the XF-5-U-I, solved that problem and was rumored to
be over 100 feet (30 meters) in diameter, and to have jet nozzles
-- resembling the 'glowing windows' seen on so many UFOs --
arranged around its rim.  It was built in three layers, the central
layer being slightly larger than the other two.  Since the saucer's
velocity and maneuvering abilities were controlled by the power
and tilt of the separate jet nozzles, there were no ailerons, rudders
and other protruding surfaces.  The machine was remarkably
similar to [some of] those reported by UFO witnesses.
     "Research on saucer-shaped aircraft did not stop with the
XF-5-U-I.  On 11 February 1953 the Toronto 'STAR' reported that
a new flying saucer was being developed at the Avro-Canada plant
in Malton, Ontario.  On 16 February the Minister for Defense
Production informed the Canadian House of Commons that Avro-
Canada was working on a 'mock-up model' of a flying saucer,
capable of flying at 1500 miles per hour (2400 km/h) and climbing
vertically.  Then the president of Avro-Canada wrote in 'AVRO
NEWS' that the prototype being built was SO REVOLUTIONARY
THAT IT WOULD MAKE ALL OTHER FORMS OF SUPERSONIC
AIRCRAFT OBSOLETE.  The craft's official name was the Avro
Car.
     "But by 1960 is was being OFFICIALLY claimed that the
project had been dropped.  The 'prototype' of the Avro flying
saucer is now in the U.S. Air Force Museum in Fort Eustis,
Virginia.  The Canadian and U.S. Governments have insisted
that they are no longer 'involved' with flying saucer construction
projects.
     "Yet it this necessarily true?  The possibility remains that
the Canadian, United States or Soviet governments could have
continued to work on highly advanced, saucer-shaped, super-
sonic aircraft.  The people directly involved in the projects, under-
standing the impossibility of testing the machines in complete
secrecy, may have opted for creating a smokescreen and
confusion, rumor and SYSTEMATIC [MEDIA] HUMILIATION
of UFO observers, thereby ensuring that they can fly their
machines with impunity.
     "But could man-made machines have such remarkable
performance?
     "We have only to think of the extraordinary innovations of
contemporary science and technology -- jet aircraft, space
rockets, reconnaissance satellites, pulse beam weapons -- and
then remember such miracles are merely the tip of the iceberg,
and that what goes on behind the guarded fences of our top-secret
military and scientific establishments is probably decades ahead
of these.  Then it becomes easier to answer 'yes'."
     Brookesmith also refers to a Dr. 'Miethe', another German
scientist involved in the 'saucer' projects.  The 'saucer' he developed
"was almost ready for operational use in 1945, when the factories
in Prague were overrun by the Allies."

		*       *       *       *       *       *       *

The following interview between Talk Show host Sam Russell and
Bulgarian immigrant Vladimir Trziski took place between 8-10
P.M., June 5th, 1993 on Sam Russell's 'OPEN MIND FORUM'
program, KTKK (K-TALK) Radio in Salt Lake City, Utah.  We will
quote only those portions of the extensive conversation which tie-
in directly with the subject at hand.  The first few minutes of the
interview were not recorded by the researcher who submitted the
taped conversation, so we will break-in on Mr. Trziski's conversation
a short ways into the interview (Note: Some of the spellings of the
names mentioned in the interview were transcribed phonetically from
the tape.  Actual spellings of these names which are identified as
such may be different than they appear in the transcript due perhaps
in part to Mr. Trziski's unusual Bulgarian accent):

     VLADIMIR TRZISKI - ...these fields of knowledge, I have been
black listed by the Illuminati and REMOVED from the public
libraries.  On top of the things that I talk about, I also have a
good collection of audio tapes on the conspirative viewpoint of
history... and materials on scientists that are, basically, their
names have never been in the data bases.  I recently found 3
inches, maybe 4 inches tall, the best collection of papers on the
work of John Searle who built a saucer in the late '60s in England
with probably 50 brilliant first generation color photographs of the
actual stages that they went through building that saucer.
     SAM RUSSELL - Oh, Really!  Hmm.
     V.T. - ...This is just one example.  The audio tape that we
produced on the work of John Keeley is one of the very few avail-
able on the market... we have a list of probably up to 100 items,
primarily science, advanced projects, that have been blacklisted
by the [Bavarian] Illuminati.  And this is the bottom line of our
research, secret advanced private projects of the Illuminati, anti-
gravity space travel, teleportational space travel, time tunnel type
space travel, mind control and human genetic engineering.
     S.R. - ...We had a good discussion about that 3 weeks or so
ago... I guess a place to start here, the Germans during World
War II evidently had what was called the 'Foo Fighter', and this
I guess is the name that the allied pilots gave to this curious-
looking thing that would bob and weave and run around through
the squadrons as they were flying over Germany to bomb and
so on.
     V.T. - Exactly, the Foo Fighter, the 'fiery' ball.  'Foo' is 'fire'
in French, it's also wind in Japanese... By the way Renato Vesco,
who was the Italian (counterpart of) Werner von Braun, the research
scientist in charge of the ITALIAN Air Force and Space Research
and Development program during the war, in his highly suppressed
book in this country -- which is also available through our Academy
-- 'INTERCEPT BUT DON'T SHOOT', talks about the whole family
of turbojet saucers that were built by the Germans, all the way up to
the Foo Fighter, the KUGELBLITZ and the FEUERBALL, two different
models of basically the same device.  And he also mentions a lot
of ATTACKS of these machines on enemy bomber formations with
DEVASTATING results for the bombers.  Some of the Foo Fighters
were doing 2900 kilometers an hour and up... a bomber would do
maybe 300, 400, 500 at the most... so we're talking about 6, 7, 8
times the bomber speed.  The most interesting thing that has not
come up into, let's say, the work of Renato Vesco (because he talks
only about the turbo-jet family of saucers... basically very simple
saucers made with piston engines with propellers, spinning the lenti-
cular airframe [like a spinning 'air foil' or 'frisbee'. Wol.], the lens-
shaped air frame of the craft thus creating gyroscopic antigravity
-- and some of them were hybrids between helicopters with spinning
rotor, basically aerodynamic lift and the gyroscopic lift of the
spinning heavy mass of rotary engines.  I wouldn't be amazed [if]
the rotary engine itself were created to power a gyroscopically
spinning saucer that had a big helicopter propeller on top, so it's
kind of a hybrid between a helicopter and a saucer)... I even dis-
covered...extremely rare drawings by the genius of German aviation,
Lipish, the guy who built the first supersonic glider in the '30s and
it is not Chuck Yeager who broke the sound barrier, but probably
the Germans 10 years earlier with their...supersonic gliders that
Lipish built.  Anyway, Lipish was designing at the end of the war
a supersonic ram-jet propulsion craft with anti-gravity assists.  They
had the fuel tanks spinning inside the jets...going through the engine
part of the object to the engine duct, spinning the fuel around thus
creating additional anti-gravity lift and greatly improving the lift capa-
bilities and the inertial responses of the craft.  So to sum it up in a
nutshell, I have...several very brilliant videos with dozens of photo-
graphs and engineering drawings, sketches and so on.  The Germans
had PROBABLY 50 MODELS of flying saucers powered by every
existing engine in their arsenal... piston engines with propellers,
rotary...engines with propellers, inboard and outboard turbo-jets,
pulse (?) jets, ram-jets and rocket engines.  The rocket-engined
craft...could go into orbit, the bigger models could go to the moon
and back with literally a truckload of kerosene and oxygen.  On top
of the saucer space flights the Germans had (an) extensive space
program with rocketry.  I discovered just several days ago the man-
made winged version of the V-2 rocket... was doing sub-orbital flights
with an altitude higher than the altitude of the Mercury, the Vostock,
space capsules.  They had space programs with their Zanger-Brent
stratospheric ram-jet...bomber... antipodal, basically circling three
quarters of the globe trajectory... That was the grandfather of the
Aurora craft that is rumored so much these days in Area 51.  The
aircraft industries of the Allies after the war had a difficult time
duplicating and regurgitating the German designs that the Germans
came up with...
     S.R. - Wow!  That's amazing...
     V.T. - Many of these things have not been duplicated yet, but
the most astonishing photographs came -- and I have you copies of
these and they are available -- from the GERMAN SECRET SOCIETY
'Tuligezelshaft' and the 'Templehofgezelshaft', the German branch of
the KNIGHTS TEMPLARS which are also the INTERNATIONAL BANK-
ERS so they have absolutely no problems financing these projects.
Few of the (indistinguishable... lower-ranking German scientists...?
- Wol.) even knew that these projects were running.  Many of them
privately had been complaining that they were the dumbest fools
because all the smart guys disappeared after the war into the German
South Polar underground colony, and only basically the intelligent
weaklings [remained in Germany]...  (Terziski at this point goes off
an a tangent and discusses cosmic physics and finally references
to unusual artifacts discovered around the world which prove that the
'ancients' were far more knowledgeable in the areas of Astronomy,
Mathematics, Architecture, Medicine, etc., then we give them credit
for... Egypt, Mayapan, India, Greece, China, Assyria and other ancient
cultures [for example] which developed elite scientific fraternities which
searched the known world for the most brilliant minds -- initiates who
would combine their resources and develop their sciences in seclusion
from the rest of the warring masses, who remained barbaric and un-
enlightened as opposed to the secret technocratic societies who had
robbed them of the knowledge they would otherwise have had access
to.  These numerous secret societies argued that the general masses
were 'undeserving' of such knowledge, since they would only use it for
purposes of warfare and violence rather than for the mutual benefit of
man.  Some mysterious rumors have it that several of these ancient
societies eventually disappeared underground, and later left the planet
altogether.  Terziski refers to tons of artifacts that have been suppressed
by the Illuminati and Smithsonian Institute because they either were
not meant for 'common man' to know about, or flew in the face of the
scientific dogmatism of the time -- scientists who did not wish to ack-
nowlede publically that there may have been scientists in the ancient
past whose knowledge far surpassed in some respects than their own.
- Wol.)... [Tersiski continues] antigravity propulsion has been with us
for all these centuries... all these stories [from ancient Hindu texts]
about propulsion, balls full of liquid mercury that would spin around
and so on... the Germans sent dozens of expeditions to Tibet to dig
into the underground caves there -- into the incredible archives that
are still guarded by...monks -- dating back from 'Lemurian' and other
previous civilizations.
     S.R. - Yeh!
     V.T. - And so antigravity has been with us for a very long time,
but in the last recorded 200 years... for example I have the account
of John Keeley, one of the greatest geniuses on the planet, on the
level of Tesla and Schauberger and T. Henry Moray and the other
luminaries of the alternative science, the politically non-correct
science, basically all these people that we try to (indistinguishable...
find out about? - Wol.) in our 'American Academy of Dissident
Scientists'.  Basically WE try to put their materials together so that
everything that has been expunged from the libraries and the data-
bases, the public domain in the best of the Orwellian traditions, can
be returned back to society where it belongs.  I mean I punch [in]
'TESLA' on the UCLA 'ORION' library information system and it came
out only with ONE book.  One book on Tesla, not BY him, not ON
him but by a third person... OCCASIONALLY mentioning Tesla some-
where in the content.
     S.R. - Yea, that is fascinating isn't it that almost any encyclopedia
will have maybe a few inches of space in one column on Tesla and
whole pages on Edison and Marconi and different other people who...
     V.T. - Only the politically correct scientists, I mean in the best
of Orwellian tradition.  The biggest shock that political immigrants
from Eastern Europe experienced is after living for several years in
this country they suddenly start getting this uneasy feeling how much
this place here not only smells but reeks of Socialism, reeks of all
these UGLY things that they have come to detest in Eastern Europe
and that was the reason for their escape in the first place.  And of
 these things, probably the control of the media and the manipulation
of the libraries in editing and removing a book from the libraries is
one of the best examples.  So John Keeley produced the 'first' free-
energy anti-gravity platform in the 1860s.  We made a brilliant audio-
tape, by the way all of these things that we will be talking about are
available in two dozen very good video tapes and about as many
audio tapes.
     S.R. - We will have to be sure and tell the folks how they can
find out how to get a hold of those, O.K.?
     V.T. - It's very simple, they can call us here in Los Angeles at
area code (310)-473-9717.
     S.R. - O.K.  We'll be hooting out that number for those who
would like to get it (the material).
     V.T. - ...Back to Keeley.  Keeley probably had the most
ingenious way of manipulating matter through...harmonic
vibrations, he was calling them sympathetic vibrations, the
science of sympathetic vibrations.  He had a big lead ball, (I'm)
talking about oh, maybe a two-feet diameter lead ball weighing
many pounds, in his lab.  And in front of a stunned and speech-
less newspaper reporter he demonstrated an incredible trick.
He had a little vibrator on his belt.  Keeley could associate and
dissociate matter with the proper vibrations [frequency], he could
move matter or levitate objects, he could drill tunnels or produce
horizontal propulsion or vertical anti-gravity lift through the same
vibrations, striking the proper chord, the proper resonating freq-
uencies for every body.  So with a little vibrator on his belt, a
little box, he pulled a metal wire connecting that vibrating box
to the great lead ball, and then cranked a dial on that box and
this whole ball levitated and he gently pushed it around the lab
to a place where he had dug a big hole (in) the wooden plank floor.
He wanted to dispose of the ball, he didn't need it anymore.  So
then he lowered the vibrations and the ball gently came to rest
on the surface but it was still kind of protruding above the level of
the floor planks.  So then he cranked the thing in the opposite
direction and the ball... imbedded itself into the dirt.  So basically
from antigravity and no weight he went straight into super gravity
and double and triple the original weight of the ball.
     S.R. - Wow!
     V.T. - Very simple weight control through vibrations.
     S.R. - Where is this technology now?
     V.T. - Tell ME where!  It's behind the triple safe doors of
the Illuminati.  It has been stamped not only 'supersecret' but
also 'unavailable for mass consumption' because it doesn't fit
the proposed party line.  (Also, based on what I have learned
from several sources, the Bavarians do not wish to upset their
oil monopolies and economic control with the possible introduction
of "free" electromagnetic energy to the 'unworthy' masses. - Wol.)
And number one, the cornerstone of this party line is the population
equation of the planet.  By all means dead or alive the [Bavarian]
Illuminati would like to LOWER the population to as little as 500
million on the planet.
     S.R. - Right.  This is according to the plan, the Global 2000
plan.
     V.T. - Exactly, and... any unexpected revelation of free-energy
technology that can solve the transportation problem around the
globe, that can give free energy for agriculture in the Third World, is
totally doomed to be ridiculed, to be annihilated in the bud, it would
never see the light of day.  Anyway, after John Keeley, Tesla was
buildind saucers for the Navy in the 1890s.  By the way, these things
did not happen suddenly, from my research I have come to realize
that all these stories of the ghost 'airships' of the 1860s, '70s, '80s,
and '90s were actually secret privately-funded Illuminati research.
(Note: Researcher John Keel's investigations turned up the fact
that the pilots of these early 'airships', which appeared years before
the 'dirigibles' came on the scene, were playing a kind of deception
game with the world.  They could not stop people from seeing their
experimental flights, so according to Keel they would contact a
prominent individual and perhaps even show him their craft and give
him much information usually involving a single individual or a small
group of individuals who had 'invented' the craft -- information which
in itself may have been dis-information to hide a much larger picture
of Illuminati financing of top secret projects.  Keel reveals that on
more than one occasion these individuals who were involved in these
secret aerial experiments would promise their prominent 'contactee'
-- who was being closely scrutinized by the media -- that they would
appear and reveal the whole thing to the world on such and such a
date.  When that date came the 'contactee' would be completely
abandoned by the aeronauts and he would never hear from them
again, leaving the poor man and in fact the whole 'airship' mystery
open to public ridicule and derision. - Wol.) By the way, in the fictional
novel 'GENESIS', by Harbinson [based on Vesco's writings], at the
beginning of that novel there is a very realistic description of one such
project of aerial navigation for airships that was privately...funded by
some shady Wall Street financiers in the 1870s I think, and even that
revelation is a gross understatement, basically another little spin
control of the Illuminati, because actually at that time they were
already playing with airships, dirigibles with antigravity, combination
airship and antigravity propulsion, airships with nuclear energy and
airships with free energy.  The story of the Nautilus submarine is
another advanced Illuminati project.  It was basically a designer leak,
an educational designer leak to the masses, to the young generation,
the [German] children to prepare them for the upcoming U-BOAT wars
of not as much the 1st but more the 2nd World War...
     (STATION BREAK)...